Episode 23: Podcast about Podcasts

According to multiple sources, there are over 1.5 million podcasts and 34 million episodes as of October 2020. 50% of all U.S. homes are podcast fans, 49% of podcast listening is done at home, and 22% of listening is done in the car. 45% of monthly podcast listeners have household income over $75,000.

All the major media companies like NPR, BBC, New York Times, ABC, CBS, Fox have moved some content to the podcast format and they’re very popular. Podcasts are here to stay, and a potential opportunity for smart marketers. So, on today’s episode, we chat with Jason Stubblefield, a veteran podcaster, Jack of all trades, and a personal friend. We discuss what it’s like to launch a podcast, and how companies can leverage the medium. Hang on tight – this is a podcast about podcasts. How very meta.

Transcript on Podcast about Podcasts

Michael Wangbickler:

My next guest on Hit the Bottle is an experienced award-winning blogger, award winning filmmaker, a regular contributor to the Emmy Award winning daytime Blue Ridge, author of the monthly food and beverage column in City Lifestyles Magazine.

More importantly, he’s the co-host of a weekly talk show called Wine Antics Live, and he’s the co-host of the One Bourbon, One Chard, or One Beer podcast, which I’ve had the pleasure of being on.

Finally, he’s also a brand ambassador for Hotel Tango, which is the first combat disabled veteran owned distillery in the country. So, we usually call him Stub. So, Stub, welcome to the show.

Jason Stubblefield:

Oh, thanks for having me, Mike, pleasure to be here.

Michael Wangbickler:

As usual, it’s always a great, great experience talking to you.

Jason Stubblefield:

We always have fun at least, right?

Michael Wangbickler:

Yes, that’s true. We just have fun.

Jason Stubblefield:

Yes.

Michael Wangbickler:

So today we’re talking about podcasts and how podcasts are relevant today more than ever. So, I’m going to throw out some statistics for our listeners.

And that is that according to Nielsen in their most recent Podcast Listener Buying Power paper, that even the light listeners, even light podcast listeners spend about 10 hours and 13 minutes on the radio each week. Each week. So, they’re spending at least 10 hours a week, and then heavy podcast users are listening much more. And the podcast audience growth rate has been increasing for at least the last five years and is projected to increase for the next five as well.

The interesting thing is, is that podcasting is not taking away from other media that people are consuming, but it seems to be like adding on.

So, there’s still room for growth there and how people are actually listening to podcasts. Then, you know, I think most of us assume that we listen to podcasts in the car, I know I do, I know a lot of people do. And that’s true for the heavy podcast listeners, but the lighter podcast listeners are listening more in their home. And why they’re listening in their home is because of the emergence of smart, smart speakers, Right?

You know, the Amazon, the Google, the Apple, you know, they all have these smart speakers that people are putting in their houses and people are using those to listen to podcasts. So, podcasting in general is something that I think everybody should be paying attention to. And so, I wanted to have Stub on the on the show to talk about his experience with podcasts and also bringing in his perspective based on, like all the all the things he’s done in the industry.

He’s been a bartender, he’s managed restaurants, you know, he’s done all kinds of stuff. So, and he also has a blog, Cork Envy, in which he writes about wine, and, you know, he’s been doing that for almost ten years now. So…

Jason Stubblefield:

Yeah.

Michael Wangbickler:

So, let’s start off like, you know, why did you start podcasting? And, you know, what is it that was attractive to you?

Jason Stubblefield:

Well, you know, like podcasts, I think, at least in my view, you know, it started off as, you know, this kind of underground almost thing, right? Like, you almost felt dirty, like it felt like you were watching, like one of the late, late shows when you were a kid, and you’re hearing things that you shouldn’t hear on TV, but you could hear them on podcasts.

So, with that, you know, and I think as far as the blossoming of podcasting, it – even the last… and I’m going to say I’m gonna say three years just to throw out a number – I think it kind of extended from, you know, the ability for everyone to have live video on their devices. So, for me, this is a little bit more in depth of a live streaming issue, which you mentioned Wine Antics Live, which, you know, that was that’s a live stream show that Jen Nelson and I did.

And, you know, it’s her baby, and she called me on to co-host with that, and we’ve done that on and off for four years. We’ve taken a bit of a hiatus this year. But I you know, she was very at the forefront with that and kind of drug me into, “You know what? We’re funny. We’re, you know, pretty intelligent about this topic and, you know, work well together. Let’s do this live stream thing.”

And that’s a committed thing, the live stream. You have to sit and watch a video live stream. So, I think that that is more of a destination thing than what we’re talking about with podcast. But I think podcasts can be they can be destination for people, but I also think when you’re doing a strictly audio podcast, you’re looking at, you know, this is some passive entertainment or education for people as you go through it and you have an opportunity there to capture some of their media time.

Michael Wangbickler:

Right. You know, I listen to a lot of different podcasts on marketing and public relations, of course, and of course, on wine as well. So, what to you is the significance of podcasting today?

Jason Stubblefield:

You know, I think it’s being able to find your it’s being able to find your tribe in a lot of different ways, and that can be good or bad, right. But if you have an interest, you can find a podcast about that interest, and I think people you know, there was the joke, especially, you know, over this year with the pandemic, like, you know, and even before that, like, oh, I’m going to start a podcast and kind of a joke. And how many new podcasts are coming out this year because people are bored.

But I think when it gets down to it, if you have someone committing to a podcast about a specific niche, those people are committed and they may not be the most formally educated in that arena, but they are the most interested people in that arena.

Right. So, like I talk to my father-in-law about music, he was never in the music business, but, you know, that guy can tell me chapter and verse, what year James Taylor released what album, and who was on the track with him because he’s interested in that. So, I think you get a very engaged, interested group of people who commit to doing a podcast regularly. And I think that’s a great that’s a great advantage for people who have niche interests.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah. If you want to listen to a podcast on underwater basket weaving, it’s out there.

Jason Stubblefield:

Yes, yes.

Michael Wangbickler:

And you know…

Jason Stubblefield:

The second one of those is starting next week, Underwater with Stub is the name of it. It’s not really. I can’t hold my breath that long.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah. You’re a Marine not a Navy.

Jason Stubblefield:

Yes. We had to do swim crawl, so…

Michael Wangbickler:

I bet. So, what’s so what’s the what’s the audience like for your podcasts, and, you know, like how is it that you serve that audience?

Jason Stubblefield:

So, you know, for us, for my best good buddy, Kern and I, we started One Bourbon, One Chard. Just a little background, if I can digress just very shortly. You know, I had this idea for a video series called Vino and Vinyl where I would sit down and listen to a record and pair a wine with that record. Having tested that with a couple of hosts, it turns out that I didn’t even care, once I watched it back to sit there for, you know, thirty-eight to thirty-eight minutes to an hour and two minutes on a record to listen to whatever we could come up with on this.

But I talked to Kern about that, and Kern and I had done some work together before as well with some of his wine clubs and wine shop businesses, and we have a similar sense of humor. We get along well, even though if you listen to a podcast, it sounds like we hate each other sometimes.

But he’s like, let’s do something with music and booze because we’re both into that and we work well together, and it kind of came about that way. Now, as far as serving the audience, I mean, quite honestly, that joke about, “hey, let’s start a podcast” is a little self-serving when you first make that decision. It’s a very self-serving, narcissistic decision to start a podcast. I don’t mean that in a critical way, but you have to have some confidence in, you know, what you want to say and what you want to cover to start a podcast.

So, you know, our decision was basically we’re kind of funny, we like each other, let’s do something to kind of extend our, you know, both of us in the wine and beverage world edutainment, you know, kind of reputations, I guess.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think that you’ve hit the nail on the head when it comes to the motivation for starting a podcast, you know, we started this podcast and I often quipped that I started this podcast because I wanted a podcast that I wanted to listen to.

Jason Stubblefield:

Right.

Michael Wangbickler:

And that… and I get an opportunity to talk to a lot of smart people and record some amazing interviews. And I hope that everybody finds value in that, but regardless, I find value in it myself.

Jason Stubblefield:

Sure.

Michael Wangbickler:

So, I get a lot out of being a podcast host.

Jason Stubblefield:

Right.

Michael Wangbickler:

So…

Jason Stubblefield:

So, can I criticize you here, though, Mike? You’ve really missed you’ve really missed the mark here having me on your show as far as interesting or engaging or something, anyone to include you want to listen to. I say that jokingly, but no, I do appreciate being here, and, you know, to piggyback on that, it’s a podcast you want to listen to. You know, you’ve talked about numbers and the like, and you and I have talked privately – this year oddly for us, we have fallen off in our listenership during this pandemic because I do think we are a listen to this in a in the car on the way to work podcast.

I think, you know, your podcast more specifically is, you know, it’s for people who are interested, and I’ve tried to share this with friends who aren’t in the business at all, and they’re like, why would I listen to that, quite honestly? And it’s not because it’s not great. They’re like it is very inside baseball. So, you know, defining your niche, I think is a is an important thing, when you start a podcast and you know, are you going to shotgun that out for a larger audience, are you going to be very specific for an audience who really cares about the very specific topic you’re talking about and take something away from it and then maybe, you know, moves on to engage some of those guests and hosts after the fact, which I think is awesome, too?

Michael Wangbickler:

Well, I think that podcasting as a medium has an advantage in that regard, in that podcasts are something that you can start and stop fairly easily. Like, you know, you listen to 20 minutes of it and then, you know, you go work for the day and then you come back and get in your car and listen to the last 20 minutes of it or what have you.

Jason Stubblefield:

Right.

Michael Wangbickler:

You know, we try and keep this podcast under 30 minutes if we can, because we feel like that’s the commute time basically of most people – you can’t do that with live media, right? You can’t do that with television because most people are going to click through the channels as soon as a commercial comes, comes on or what have you. And so, this is really kind of along the same lines of all the other streaming media that we see taking over our hours of entertainment in that, you know, you can listen to it at your leisure, you can listen to it in parts if you want, you don’t have to listen to them in order if you don’t want to.

Jason Stubblefield:

Right.

Michael Wangbickler:

So those are all advantages for actually having a podcast.

Jason Stubblefield:

Yeah, you talk about like, you know, media entertainment. I think also, though, that, you know, people look at their entertainment as education these days as well. And I think podcasts are a natural – they’re a very, very natural way to kind of bridge that gap, you know, you’re not watching something on the History Channel, you’re listening to someone talk about something and, you know, in an arena in which you’re interested. And I think that podcasts really do a good job of drilling that down.

You know, the only podcast, honestly, I don’t – and there’s podcast I don’t like because I don’t like them and I’m not interested in the topic – but, you know, the only ones I really don’t like are political podcast. I mean, personally, like everything else I’ve heard podcasts, and I’m like, if you produce it well and you present something, you know, it’s an educating thing or an entertaining thing sometimes as well, and sometimes you like the entertainment and sometimes you don’t, depending on the sense of humor or the take or whatever. Yeah, so for me, like pretty much any podcast that’s available, I will listen to at least one time.

Unless it’s politics, and that’s just because that seems these days – and I’m not getting political – but it just seems to be a bunch of yelling to the same people who believe what you say. So that to me, you know, that to me goes different from, you know, niche of people interested in this one area, more to just finding a reason to be angry with whomever you should be angry with.

Michael Wangbickler:

OK, so let’s say… all right, this is the conversation that you and I can help shed some light to some of my listeners.

Jason Stubblefield:

OK, let’s do it.

Michael Wangbickler:

Let’s say you want to start a podcast, OK? What are some of the things you need to think about when you are going to start a podcast?

Jason Stubblefield:

Number one don’t start a podcast. I say that jokingly.

No, I think number one is have a very specific topic goal in mind. I think that’s the first and foremost is that have a very specific topic. Now, if it’s, you know, all of entertainment, you’re doing a, you know, Entertainment Tonight like podcast for, you know, on audio, that’s fine. But have that goal in mind. Number two, I would say figure out who your audience is for that.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yep.

Jason Stubblefield:

And that’s that to me is the most important thing is figure out your audience.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yep. And then, you know, I think, you know, along those same lines, is have the proper expectations.

Jason Stubblefield:

Right.

Michael Wangbickler:

I think I think that I’m sure that there’s a lot of people will say, “oh, I’m going to launch this podcast, it’s going to be millions of listeners, you know, as soon as I launch it”, which we all know is not going to be the case.

Jason Stubblefield:

Right.

Michael Wangbickler:

It takes time.

Jason Stubblefield:

Like it’s like you’ve been read my mail in that regard.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah. It takes time to build up that audience, and… because a lot of it is word of mouth, especially if you’re a very niche podcast, is people say, “oh, have you listened to this podcast, or this or that podcast?” I have people all the time who asked me, “Hey were podcast are you listening to?” And I share whichever ones they are.

So, setting your expectations, and then equipment wise…

Jason Stubblefield:

Yes.

Michael Wangbickler:

What are your recommendations – I have recommendations too, but what are your recommendations when it comes to equipment?

Jason Stubblefield:

Get yourself some kind of external microphone. If it’s a USB microphone, great.

If you have – because you were an old musician – you know, and you’ve got a bunch of equipment laying around your house, you can use any quality, mic if you get a proper USB input for your computer. But sound is important for audio and, you know, for an audio medium, obviously. And that’s the thing we struggle with sometimes as guests, having guests on the show as Mike, I’m sure you have, and I’m not outing anyone specifically not asking you, too, but they don’t have proper equipment and they’re using they’re on board on their MacBook Pro microphone, which is great, except they’re using it in a very not well soundproofed, you know, dining room in their home, and it’s very echoey. And they pull their headphones out of their ears a little bit. Headphones are the most important thing when you’re recording audio over the Internet, because even if you pull your headphones out or off a little bit, your audio is going to bleed over and echo…

Michael Wangbickler:

Yes.

Jason Stubblefield:

…the entire time, and it’s going to make the worst day for the person who has to edit that audio on the other end.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah.

Jason Stubblefield:

And sometimes renders it, like, useless in some in some regards.

So, yeah, the equipment, like I said, it can be you know, there are quality USB mics you can purchase for, you know, 50 bucks or so. You can spend a hundred dollars and get one that’s really good, you can get yourself an input and plug a, you know, whatever great mic you have or average mic you have into it. But quiet space, headphones, and a dedicated microphone for me or you know, those are necessary things.

If you’re now deciding I’m going to do this now as a thing I’m doing, not occasionally.

Michael Wangbickler:

Right. And then finally, the tech stack, you know, basically you need some way of editing the podcasts. I mean, you don’t have to edit the podcast, but most of us are not capable of, like, starting recording and going through the whole thing and then into recording flawlessly. Right. You know, most of it needs a little editing at least. Plus, you want to put in intros and outros, and, you know, if you want to include any kind of advertising or anything like that, you need to have an editing software to do that.

I use Adobe Audition, which comes with my Adobe suite, but you can use things like GarageBand. There are any number of editing software is out there and they don’t you know, there’s some learning curve there.

Jason Stubblefield:

Yes.

Michael Wangbickler:

But, you know, generally speaking, you can get into a pretty quickly.

Jason Stubblefield:

Yeah. And there’s some freeware. But once again, if you’re a Mac user, you get GarageBand on your computer, you can use that. I’ve not been in the Windows environment for quite a while, so I don’t know what we’re getting on the Microsoft with that. But I know there’s, I know there’s ones out there, there’s ones you can download for any platform that are, you know, freeware that quite honestly, for simple purposes are fairly easy to learn.

If you know anything about sound, they’re fairly intuitive. If you don’t know anything about sound, there’s plenty of YouTube videos.

But yeah, slight editing is great. Now, I will say with that, Mike, I love the, you know, the… You know, on a podcast, like sometimes things come up and people laugh, or you go off on a tangent and that’s part of the entertainment and the education, the show. But yeah, every now and again, someone’s going to get into a coughing fit because they hadn’t dusted their desk in three years or, you know, allergy season or somebody got half a sinus infection and is, you know, snorting all night or whatever.

Michael Wangbickler:

Dog rushing into the room and…

Jason Stubblefield:

Yeah, dogs. Yeah. And at some point, like, the dog bark is funny for like the first three seconds and then you’re like, oh well everybody’s trying to record while, you know your partner’s yelling and screaming, cussing at your dog. Maybe edit that out and go ahead and just start that little, that little part over. So that is useful. But honestly, editing podcasts, I think if it’s just straight audio without music is probably pretty easy.

Yeah. And it depends on once again, it depends on the environment which you and your guests are recording for me.

Michael Wangbickler:

If you if you do want to add music to your podcast, you’re going to have to go for royalty free music, or have somebody…

Jason Stubblefield:

Yes.

Michael Wangbickler:

…record it for you. So, you need to make sure that you stay above board on that, and then also…

Jason Stubblefield:

Or in the case of One Bourbon, One Chard, I will say, you know, we play our songs because we do the drinking game and matching, you know, different libations with music. You know, that’s a that’s a royalty free thing for commentary and criticism.

Michael Wangbickler:

Right.

Jason Stubblefield:

Which…

Michael Wangbickler:

And you’re not playing the entire song, you’re only playing a segment.

Jason Stubblefield:

Yes. We would never play the entire song on our show. Once again, we’ve gotten around that, to be quite honest, because I think we do get in the spirit of that. But yes, if you want to use any music on your show, definitely, definitely, definitely do that and don’t use all of it. Especially if you’re using the music for an intro, like you can’t use your favorite Rihanna song as an intro to your podcast without permission, friends.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah.

Jason Stubblefield:

I will say that. Don’t do that. You will get hurt.

But once again, if you have a Mac and you have an editing software, there’s stuff, you know, there’s music included that you can use, like find one that you could do or, you know, join those royalty free sites, one of those downloads of sorts of free…

Michael Wangbickler:

There’s plenty of royalty free, you know, out there…

Jason Stubblefield:

And then you pay your, you know, 20 to one hundred dollars a year and you can get download all the music and sound bites you want, so…

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah, I agree. OK, so for the benefit of listeners…

Jason Stubblefield:

Yes.

Michael Wangbickler:

You know what are the… I see two applications for Podcast’s in in their world. One of those is being a guest on podcasts. So how do you select your guests and or like how do you work with other podcasts to be guests on their show?

Jason Stubblefield:

That’s a great question, actually. You need to find a show with which, you know, it doesn’t need to be the exact niche you’re in, but find something that complements what you’re doing. And it can be you know, we talk about podcasts, you know? Well, once again, I’m on this podcast here. This is a complimentary podcast. Yeah.

Michael Wangbickler:

It’s podcasters talking about podcasts…

Jason Stubblefield:

…as far as what we do…. Podcasters – Boozy podcasters talking about Boozy podcasts. But…

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah.

Jason Stubblefield:

Yeah, find someone who complements you and with whom you know, with an audience in which you’re going to intersect. I think that’s an important thing.

And then I think as far as choosing your guests, I would say the same thing, except you’re not always choosing your guests who are podcasters, right?

Michael Wangbickler:

Right.

Jason Stubblefield:

So as far as other podcasters find some complementary ground. As far as guests – and once again, it depends on your niche, right? Like Mike, you’re never going to have anyone on who, you know, is like a tool and die person, because that makes no sense for, you know, for your podcast here, for our purposes of beverage marketing.

But maybe get outside the lines, and, you know, it’s not that hard to go with someone who’s, you know, maybe in the food world, or in the entertainment world, or hospitality world where you can get those in.

But don’t go completely outside the box necessarily with choosing your guests, find someone who’s going to do that, and then find someone who’s going to be excited to be on your podcast. Because even podcasters who you think if we’re doing this kind of [inhale, exhale], you know, crossing the streams a little bit, so to speak, no pun intended there in a little incestuous with other podcasters, you know, find someone who’s also going to help you out.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yes.

Jason Stubblefield:

And also consider if they’re going to be a good guest on your show, because that reciprocity for hey, you’re on my show, I’ll be on your show at some point. And there’s some reciprocity there and we’ll both help promote each other. You know, that’s great, and sometimes as a podcaster, you know, running a podcast, you find people who have more followers than don’t, and you realize that some of those episodes with people, more people listening to them, even if they’re a little outside of your specific niche, they’ve brought more people into the fold for you.

So, don’t be afraid to be selfish in that regard in asking someone to be on your show and then asking them to promote your show and then asking to be on their show as well.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah. And for this podcast – for Hit the Bottle, we have a lot of guests on who don’t have podcasts. So really, it’s just a matter of, you know, for us, it’s educating our listeners on the subject that we’re talking about, and then the benefit to the guest, obviously, is that they hopefully get an increased audience out of it. So, as you know, let’s say you’re a wine producer, you’re a CEO of a winery or a wine maker of a winery, and you want to promote the winery a little bit more, you know, getting onto podcasts and having them interview you about your experience is a pretty good marketing tactic.

Jason Stubblefield:

Yeah, because there’s – yeah, there’s nothing better than having, you know, one more thing, you’d be like, “hey, I was on this thing”, and even if people don’t know what that thing is, podcast wise, they’re like, “oh, they were cool enough to be asked on this podcast”.

And once again, we can laugh about everybody starting a podcast, but I think those of us who have been doing this for a while and have committed to it, you know, we’re committed to it, and hopefully we all perform better every episode and figure things out, but I think those of us who have committed to podcast are committed to doing not only doing the podcast, but also, you know, espousing the virtues of whatever, you know, niche or industry we’re talking about.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yep.

Jason Stubblefield:

And that’s a benefit for everybody.

Michael Wangbickler:

Yeah. And the second way I think this is applicable to the listeners is if they want to start a podcast. And I think that, you know, you have to you have to look at it in terms of there’s an audience out there for you, it may not be huge, but they’re out there, and again, it’s a way for you to connect in a different manner with…

Jason Stubblefield:

Yes.

Michael Wangbickler:

…with your customers, with your partners, with whomever else. The industry as a whole. It is a great tool and fairly easy, you know, for me at least, it’s easier than video, you know, it’s easier than writing, you know. I love writing and I do a lot of it, but this is even easier than that.

So, you know, it’s fairly easy to get up and running with it and it can have a big impact pretty quickly.

Jason Stubblefield:

I agree. And I’ve said for a couple of years now, Kern and I’ve been doing the One Bourbon, One Chard, or One Beer podcast for – I think we’re coming up on our fourth year now – and I’ve said for the last several years, like, “it’s the most fun thing I do that is work related”. And it is a lot of work to make it good and make it better than we started out because we started out, we made all the mistakes you’re not supposed to. You know, we were… You know…

Michael Wangbickler:

Everybody does. It is going to happen. You have to be okay with it.

Jason Stubblefield:

Lost episodes, the whole nine, it was like, oh, it… but whatever. But it’s the most fun thing because, you know, you do the prep work, but then you just sit down and you have fun with, you know, if you have a co-host, one of your best good friends, and if you have a guest, you have – and we’ve had, you know, mostly great guests on who are engaging and kind of get in on the action with us.

It’s just fun at that point. Yeah. No, I said mostly I was not talking about you specifically. I was talking about oh, sorry my mic went out there for a minute. No, it’s fun, it’s a fun thing, but it’s also fun to get those different perspectives from people. And Mike, you’re doing a great job here with Hit the Bottle as well, getting people in the industry from all different, you know, kind of from different angles and different perspectives, and that that’s something that I have really enjoyed listening to on the podcast here. And then was also like, why do you want me on here, man? Oh!

Michael Wangbickler:

Well, I think I think everybody having listened to this episode already knows why I wanted you.

Jason Stubblefield:

Well, I hope so. I hope that’s the case.

Michael Wangbickler:

So, we do have to wrap it up here…

Jason Stubblefield:

Please.

Michael Wangbickler:

Any closing thoughts on podcasting?

Jason Stubblefield:

So, I will thank you again for having me on the show. You know, podcasting, it’s frivolous and fun, but it’s serious work on the front and back side of it. So, if you want a podcast, don’t, you know, don’t take it lightly doing that. One thing I did want to say is when you start a podcast, I promise you your best friends and neighbors are not going to be your audience for it.

I don’t care how much they love what you do and that you’re in this fun industry and oh, my gosh, I wish I could do that. I wish I could drink for a living, which is the perception of people, sometimes not in the beverage industry, that you just wake up and start drinking all day. Those are not the people to do it. If you want that kind of love and support from your family and friends, neighbors start a local band, right?

Yeah. Because they’re also not going to come to your shows. And let’s pretend it wasn’t covid time. They’re not going to come to your show.

You’re going to get like one large group at your first show and then no one else is going to show up. So, you know, and Mike, you brought this up also like set expectations. Just because people think you have a cool job and are interested, they’re not necessarily going to listen to what you have to say when it comes to work, because we all can all, you know, bitch and moan about work around, you know, around a beer at the end of the day in the driveway, but we also don’t want chapter and verse of what everyone’s done every day either, so…