I asked my wife the other night how she defined leadership. You see, she and I are in similar positions. She works for Sonoma County Parks and of course, I run my own agency.
We’re both in leadership positions, and the conversation was interesting it took to pass. We each came at it from different directions, but in the end, we all kind of settled on the same thing where leadership is about inspiration, and motivation, and making sure that the people that you have working for you are empowered to do what they need to do.
So late last year, I had a conversation with Christine Moll from O’Neill Vintner’s about leadership. And she actually defines it as three things – good leadership has the great ability to inspire, motivate, and mobilize. That it really kind of takes into consideration the individual rather than the role. So, it’s like people over tasks.
There’s no black and white, there’s no formulas, it’s very contextual, and as we look towards the next generation of leaders, it’s important for us to realize that there are certain things that the upcoming generations value more than previous generations did, and by recognizing that, we’re able to lead.
So, sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with Christine Moll – on with the show.
Transcript on Leadership in the Wine Biz
Michael Wangbickler:
Our next guest on Hit the Bottle is an expert in brand building and marketing with over 18 years of experience on the spirit side of the beverage business. She currently serves as Vice President of Marketing at O’Neill Vintners and Distillers, the seventh largest winery in California. She is responsible for overseeing the core marketing strategy for all brands, including Line 39, Robert Hall, Day Owl Rosé, and Harken.
Prior to joining O’Neill Vintners & Distillers, Christine was with Campari America where she was Category Marketing Director. During her tenure there, she drove the growth of a complex portfolio of brands. Prior to that, she was at Bacardi USA, where her focus was the launch and growth of several spirits brands. I am super excited to chat with her today about leadership in the beverage business. So welcome to the show, Christine Moll.
Christine Moll:
Thank you, Mike, thanks for having me.
Michael Wangbickler:
Absolutely, super glad that we could connect. So, before we begin, would you share with listeners how they might get in contact with you?
Christine Moll:
Sure, the best way to contact me would be through LinkedIn, you can find me by searching for Christine Moll last name M-O-L-L, you could also email me at christine.moll@oneillwine.com, or my Twitter handle, which is @moll_cm.
Michael Wangbickler:
Great. So, we’re talking leadership today. Leadership is a term that is often thrown around, but not always understood. So, what do you believe makes a great leader?
Christine Moll:
You are so right, Mike, I think there’s so many misconceptions around leadership, a lot of people think that, you know, because you’re a manager or because you have direct reports or because sometimes you’re in a position of authority, that means that you’re a leader. I think that is what drives this misconception and using that word in so many different ways.
To answer your question, for me, I believe what a great, a great leader is a person that does three things, and these are three broad concepts – and we’ll unpack those for you. These three things are they have a great ability to inspire, to motivate, and to mobilize people towards a common goal. So unpacking those three things for you – on the inspire part of it, you know, a great leader is somebody that is able to paint a really compelling vision and purpose, kind of guide people to clear goals and a common, very clear picture of where we’re heading.
And then when you when you go down to the motivate part of a great leader is really by focusing on being very clear what those goals and expectations are, but also being able to understand really well who your team is, what really drives them and what motivates them, and make sure that you’re utilizing that knowledge to build these compelling objectives for the team and for the individual.
And last but not least, is mobilizing teams and people, and that is making sure that you’re focusing a lot on what is a clear action and results that you’re trying to drive, to make sure that people are very clear on what that is.
Michael Wangbickler:
OK, so I’ve often heard people say that you can’t actually motivate people, that you can only demotivate people. So, what does it mean? I love the breakdown here that you’ve posed for us, so I get the inspire and I get the mobilize. So, like, give us some examples of how you might motivate.
Christine Moll:
Sure, I think, you know, in my experience, the way that I have been successful at motivating people is by making sure that first and foremost, you understand what makes them tick, how they operate, what is… what are the things that they look for in a task or a role or from the leader and then be able to drive them based on that.
Most of the time, I think there’s a lot of confusion where leaders think that by being so prescriptive and directive is the way to motivate, and I have a different approach to that. For me, it’s about the individual first. What is it that makes them tick? And then tailoring the actions, tailoring the assignments, tailoring their role based on how they are. And I think that’s one of the biggest challenges that we face with leadership, is there’s no black or white, there’s no formula.
It’s very contextual and very tailored to the individual as well, especially in our industry, where our teams are relatively smaller than you would in traditional CPG companies, so you have a great opportunity as a leader to really get to know your team individually and the dynamics among how they operate together.
Michael Wangbickler:
I couldn’t agree more. You know, it really kind of comes down to, you know, what is a leader and what’s a manager, and I think a lot of people have this kind of idea that they have to be in the business of the people who are working for them all the time. You know, they have to approve everything and that they need to comment on everything. But the fact is, is that, you know, that’s actually pretty demotivating for a lot of employees, and for me at least, it’s a matter of instilling ownership in the people and giving them the responsibility to do it and then letting them go do their jobs.
Christine Moll:
I agree 100 percent with you, Mike, for me, the way that I see my role is as a leader, my job is to remove any obstacle that is in front of our team, and then get out of the way. Those obstacles could mean many things. Obstacles could be things as simple as capabilities or experience or actual tools that they might need to do the job. So, making sure that they are well equipped and then empowering them, I think that’s what you’re alluding to.
I have seen it over and over the results – when you empower people and you keep them excited and motivated – are far greater, and people really surprise you of what they can come up with. I think when people tend to micromanage, you really are selling yourself short and your team. People have the ability to do great things when they are empowered and motivated.
Michael Wangbickler:
Mm hmm. Agreed. So, the beverage business is in a bit of transition right now, and we’re starting to see more of the millennial generation actually enter into the workforce and into management roles. So, what are some of the steps that we all need to take to build that next set of leaders in the beverage business, do you think?
Christine Moll:
Sure, the first thing I think we need to do is to make is to known that things have changed for all of us that grew up, you know, in the… in our careers 20 years ago or so, things were very different. What was required of the job was very different, how much access to information we had was much different.
The new generation of leaders, I think, have an amazing opportunity these days to really thrive. The first step for us is to acknowledge that, and make sure that we are not trying to make this new generation of leaders behave and be like we did when we started in our careers.
So that would be step one. Step two for me is we have a great opportunity as leaders to kind of take a step back and listen, listen to this new generation, as to their ideas. They definitely bring great perspectives, sometimes it might be a little bit uncomfortable that someone maybe 10, 15 years younger than you may have a better solution than yours. I personally think that’s incredible and I relish when that actually happens. And I actually do empower my team to do that and come to me with better ways than what I can do.
The third one is making sure that we are focusing on developing our next generation of leaders, but developing them based on skill, not just based on function, or based on what they are required to do that moment in their current role. But think about what are the skills that that individual is going to need to take the next step or even two steps ahead in their own development?
Michael Wangbickler:
Yeah, it’s that old adage of using the right tool for the job, and that is that basically you want to make sure that the people that you’re using are well adapted to whatever it is that their tasks are, but also developing them further into possibly other roles.
Christine Moll:
Yeah, totally, I mean, I use the backpack of skills analogy. Have you heard that before?
Michael Wangbickler:
No, I don’t think I have.
Christine Moll:
I don’t remember exactly when was the first time that that I heard that analogy, but it’s stuck with me and I’ve had that with me ever since, and I use it a lot now with my own team. This analogy is you start your career with an empty backpack, and the whole goal, as you go through your career, is to start kind of putting in rocks in your backpack. Every rock is a new skill that you learn, and these skills, are learned on the job, are learned by your mentors and coaches, are learned by other things you do, even outside your immediate job.
For example, things that you volunteer for or with, and as I’m building my the development plan for my team, I always bring this analogy to them to say, “OK, so now you have these rocks in your backpack. So, we need to now fill your backpack with other types of rocks. Let’s talk about what those rocks will be.” I use a lot of skill based development tools in order to do that and ensure that for me as the leader, the fuller this backpack is for my team, once they’re done or as they continue to grow within the organization, the better.
It’s not just about the results, it’s not just about those ‘to-dos’ in the job, but it’s about how much or how many of these skills are being developed and added to the backpack.
Michael Wangbickler:
I love that I’m totally stealing that one.
Christine Moll:
Maybe, as long as you give me credit for it.
Michael Wangbickler:
Of course. So, what are some of the some of the current challenges and opportunities that, you know, for these new potential leaders? What’s out there for them right now?
Christine Moll:
You know, I think one of the biggest challenges for the new generation, and I don’t know if I call it a challenge, as much as maybe a challenge is they’re very eager to get ahead, and I think that’s what I encourage my team to do, is just take it step by step, you’re going to get there. There is no formula to becoming a great leader, so just take your time to do that.
But I like to focus more on opportunities. I think, you know, nowadays people have a lot of opportunity to show leadership. Leadership doesn’t just mean that you have direct reports or the team. You can be an individual contributor and still be a leader.
So my advice to my team and other people that I coach in the in the industry is take any possible opportunity you have to show leadership and its leadership going back to the three sort of anchors that I gave you at the beginning of our chat of inspire, motivate, and mobilize. You can do that in many opportunities they have through your through your day to day or through your job or even outside the job.
For example, you can volunteer to take an initiative in the company where you have the opportunity to lead a cross-functional team, let’s say in the wine world, for example, it’s a new product development, and you take that opportunity to get winemaking involved, operation, sales, marketing, you name it, and be able to hone in on that skill, even though you don’t necessarily have a direct report.
Another way that you can take opportunities to hone in on your leadership skills is to look outside of your job as well, any opportunity for you to do volunteering work where you have a chance to lead a team of volunteers and to a common goal or for an event or whatnot, and that allows you the opportunity to make sure that you’re honing in on all the skills and getting you comfortable with making sure that you know how to bring a team together and deliver great results.
I really encourage a lot of leaders to be very proactive as well in within their own teams, so while you might not be responsible for a specific brand, let’s say, in our industry or a specific role, that does not mean that you shouldn’t raise your hand and ask to volunteer to take on that initiative for the company as long as going back to that backpack, right, it’s something that’s going to continue to help you bring additional skills into your backpack while also driving results for the company that you’re working with.
Michael Wangbickler:
Fantastic. So. Thinking back to when I started out of college, you know, it was it was a much different time. We talked about this earlier, you know, and frankly, I didn’t get a whole lot of direction from the baby boomers who were my managers, so, you know, and there was this kind of feeling of, oh, you have to pay your dues before you can get to a leadership position, right?
So, I really think that’s an antiquated look at things nowadays. But I think that there’s still some of that lingering. So, what should today’s C Suite executives recognize today in training that next generation of leaders?
Christine Moll:
Yeah, I mean, step one is we have to be OK and recognize, to use your words, that people and everybody is different now, the new generation is different. This idea of paying your dues, and I kind of chuckled because that’s kind of how it was for me as well, which was different times for sure, but I think, again, just recognizing that it’s a different world.
If we go back to the second anchor that I talked about, about motivation, and if you really get to know your team and really engage with your team, both as a team and as individuals, you will be able to understand and have more clarity as to how to make sure you are helping develop and grow the new generation of leaders is no longer enough to just sit at the top and say, here is a five year rule and here’s what I expect from you guys, good luck. Doesn’t work that way anymore.
The more you engage with people and the more you get to know people, I think the better you will be to deliver these results at the end. It might be the same outcome, but you have to go at it in a very different way than it was twenty-five years ago for sure.
Michael Wangbickler:
I equate it to throwing somebody into the deep end of the pool and see if they can swim.
Christine Moll:
There you go. One of the biggest things that that is now more than ever, and as we look at the millennial’s and it seems like Gen Z even more so, making sure that you have a very clear purpose. In fact, 15 years ago was important to have your mission vision values, which is great, and I still think that it’s something that’s necessary to drive your organization.
However, being a purposeful leader, giving organization now trumps a lot of that, so you start seeing companies like Patagonia as a company that people talk a lot about, that lives its purpose through and through, and by doing that and being people first and being consumers first, they are able to deliver extraordinary results.
So that’s another change I think that, especially for those that see tweets that have been around for a long time, it’s important that you recognize that, and if you don’t have a purpose yet in your organization might be a good opportunity or a good time for you to look at that. That it’s not just about financial results and volume or dollars, but it’s about how you really are motivating this new generation of leaders, something much more deeper and much more meaningful to them that will drive – still – extraordinary results for your company.
Michael Wangbickler:
Yeah, and we see that a lot with consumer behavior nowadays and that, you know, people are voting with their dollars and they’re purchasing products from companies that do have that purpose, and do have a have a clear vision for what they’re why they’re even in existence. They’re not just selling stuff; they have a reason for being.
Christine Moll:
Right now, that’s the new image, especially in the lifestyle business, which is what we do right in wine, and alpha, and it’s a lifestyle side, so it’s always been more of an emotional connection with consumers than not. And now more so than ever, people want to know more about just an image of a product, or even a person, if it’s to, say, the winemaker, they really want to know what you stand for, what you believe in.
And it’s funny because, you know, this is on the consumer side as you’re talking about it, but it’s the same goes for employees in the second tier of leaders for us – they’re just the same people. They’re motivated by the same things, though alpha marketers is, I think, we have a leg up because we are very good at understanding what makes consumers tick, what motivates them, what’s behind their purchasing decisions, how do we connect better with them?
It’s the same approach that you should take with your team and other leaders in the organization that you work with.
Michael Wangbickler:
Yeah, I mean, I always encourage my clients as a communications agency to look at the different audiences that you have, you know, it’s not just a media audience or consumer audience, but you also have your neighbors, your community, as well as your employees and all of those you need to be able to address each of them individually.
Christine Moll:
Yes, it goes back to making sure that you can’t… there’s no cookie cutter approach to leadership or to marketing for that matter, you really have to…
Michael Wangbickler:
It’s too bad – it would make things so much easier.
Christine Moll:
Can you imagine? I don’t know. I actually I actually enjoy… for me that’s my favorite part of my job, which is why I wanted to do this podcast with you is leading people and developing people and seeing them thrive. But yes, there is no cookie cutter. Every single one of my team members, for example, they’re all very different and they’re different things that make them move and take and different strengths that they bring to the table.
You have to be able to tailor your style and your leadership to each one of them, and then also as a whole, right? Because you’re not just leading just one person at a time, you’re leading the team also. So, yes, knowing your audience, you know, it’s Marketing 101, right?
Michael Wangbickler:
Right. Exactly right. So, OK, so let’s say that we’ve conducted the training, we’ve instituted these skills, we’ve inspired and motivated and mobilized the next generation – so what does tomorrow’s leader look like, do you think? Let’s look in the crystal ball.
Christine Moll:
Well, so I think the first thing that you’re going to see is a far more diverse group of leaders like you are going to see – well I hope that we’re going to see – a lot more females at the top, a lot more minorities, Hispanics, Asians, African-Americans up there.
So, for sure, this is something that I get really excited about the future is that that diversity will exist, and why that is important is because it gives you diversity of thought and perspective and diversity of ideas. I think that’s something to look forward to in the future, I think that the leaders of tomorrow will inherently be more purpose driven versus just pure financial driven, as we talked about. That’s something that the marketplace already is requiring, if you may, and so is our employees and the future employees of these future leaders.
I think that they’re going to be in a great time to lead with even, you know, teams that are not necessarily in one particular office or place. We now, through technology, have the opportunity to connect with people wherever they are, and I think that’s going to be really important for leaders to embrace and to acknowledge that we have an opportunity to do that and not be so old school, and thinking that everybody needs to be in the same place at the same time.
That also will present some challenges, I think, for the future leaders, because it’s always easier to engage and connect with people when you are in the same space. So how are they going to have to think about as their teams grow and they are not necessarily in the same physical space and how to continue to lead and manage and motivate and inspire?
Michael Wangbickler:
Yeah, agreed. I’m definitely seeing the trend, and we’re actually taking advantage of it ourselves in this idea of more of a distributed workforce or virtual workforce, it’s becoming more and more common and it makes a lot of economic in an efficiency sense.
OK, so as we wrap up here, would you like to tell us a little bit about your role at O’Neill Vintner’s and Distillers and about the company in general?
Christine Moll:
Sure, I joined O’Neill Vintner’s and Distillers about 15 months ago. My role here, my focus in the first year, was to actually build the department, and build the team. So the main objective for us is to become more and more a consumer driven organization. O’Neill primarily was a bulk… branded bulk wine business for many years, and were very successful at that. Our next source of growth really is the consumer branded business.
That’s been what’s been keeping me busy and making sure that I bring a lot of leaders in in my team. I like to hire for that, I like to make sure that I look for people that want to be leaders – want to become leaders in the organization. Especially when you have a smaller team and you’re in a smaller organization, having people that will come with that ambition and that pro-activeness to drive for results is really important in our team.
And last but not least, I also oversee all the communications for not only our individual brands, but for the company as a whole as well.
Michael Wangbickler:
Very good. Well, hey, thanks for being on the show today, Christine. It was a great conversation. I think we can actually talk forever on this topic, but we’re out of time. So, I just want to thank you for being on.
Christine Moll:
Well, thanks so much for having me, Mike.
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